An armored train carrying the North
一辆载有
Korean leader Kim Jong-un has crossed
朝鲜领导人金正恩的装甲列车已越过
into the Chinese border making its way
中国边境，
to the capital Beijing. Well, Kim
前往首都北京。 嗯，
Jong-un is expected to join around 20
金正恩预计将与大约 20 位
other world leaders at Wednesday's
其他世界领导人一起出席周三
military parade in Beijing, marking
在北京举行的阅兵式，纪念
Japan surrender, 80 years ago, ending
80 年前日本投降，结束
the Second World War. Well, this is Mr.
第二次世界大战。 这是
Kim's first trip to China for six years
金正恩六年来首次访华，
and the first time that he's ever
也是他第一次
attended an international gathering.
出席国际会议。
Meanwhile, President Xi Jinping's been
与此同时，国家主席习近平在中国首都
holding talks with his Russian
与俄罗斯总统普京举行会谈
counterpart Vladimir Putin in the
Chinese capital. Mr. Putin described
。 普京称
President Xi as a dear friend and said
习近平主席是“亲爱的朋友”，并表示，俄中
the strategic nation of nature of the
two countries relations were at an
两国战略自然资源关系正处于
unprecedented
前所未有的
high level. The latest talks followed
高水平。 此次会谈是在
their meeting on the sidelines of the
Shanghai Cooperation Organization
上海合作组织
Summit. Well, let's go straight to
峰会期间举行的。 好吧，我们直接去
Beijing and join my colleague Steve Lie.
北京和我的同事 Steve Lie 会合。
>> Yeah, hi Regini. It's uh those
是的，你好，Regini。 呃，这些
diplomatic efforts have just really
外交努力实际上是
continued on from that two-day SEO
summit in Tanzan you were referring to
您提到的坦桑尼亚为期两天的 SEO 峰会的延续，
and and that's right President Putin has
没错，普京总统
met with President C today again and
今天再次会见了 C 总统，
referred to him as a dear friend for his
并称他为亲密的朋友，
part though President C told Putin that
尽管 C 总统告诉普京，
China Russia relations have withtood the
中俄关系经受住了
test of international changes and he
国际变化的考验，他还
added that Beijing was willing to work
补充说，北京愿意
with Moscow to promote what he said
与莫斯科合作，推动
there was the construction of a more
建立一个更加
just and reasonable global governance
公正合理的全球治理
system. Well, tomorrow, Wednesday, China
体系。 嗯，正如您所说，明天，星期三，中国
will mark its 80th year or 80 years
将庆祝建国 80 周年或
since the end of World War II, as you
二战结束 80 周年，届时将举行
mentioned, with a large military parade
盛大的阅兵式，
that's going to be featuring tens of
thousands of troops in a range of new
数万名官兵将携带各种新型
weapons. At the parade, the Chinese
武器参加阅兵式。 在阅兵式上，中国国家
president will be standing
主席将
shoulder-to-shoulder with leaders from
与
some of the most sanctioned nations in
the world, including Russia, North
俄罗斯、
Korea, and Iran. And we can get more on
朝鲜和伊朗等世界上受制裁最严重的国家的领导人并肩站立。 我们可以从史蒂文·麦克唐纳那里了解更多有关
what to expect tomorrow with Steven
明天的预期
McDonald. He's joining us from our
。 他是来自我们
Beijing bureau. Before we get to
北京办事处的记者。 不过，在我们开始
tomorrow though, uh, Stephen, let's talk
明天的会议之前，呃，斯蒂芬，我们先来谈谈
about today and and that meeting between
今天以及
President Cinping and President Putin.
钦平总统和普京总统之间的会晤。
What more has come out from it?
还有什么结果呢？
>> Well, in fact, before we get to that, I
嗯，事实上，在我们谈论这个之前，我甚
might even mention the breaking news
至可能会提一下
we're getting from Reuters. Uh, they
我们从路透社得到的突发新闻。 呃，他们
seem to have spotted Kim Jong-un's train
似乎发现金正恩的列车
arriving in Beijing, or at least in some
抵达了北京，或者至少是抵达了
part of Beijing. So, it could be that
北京的某个地方。 因此，
the North Korean leader will be seen in
朝鲜领导人可能会出现在
the streets here, or at least his
这里的街道上，或者至少他的
motorcade will be seen in Beijing very
车队很快就会出现在北京
soon, and we'll see what sort of a
，我们将看看
welcome he gets. TAS news agency is also
他会受到什么样的欢迎。 TAS 通讯社还
reporting that uh Vladimir Putin may
报道称，弗拉基米尔·普京可能会在
meet Kim Jong-un here. And there's even
这里会见金正恩。 甚至
been a lot of speculation that the
有很多猜测称，
Chinese, North Korean, and Russian
中国、朝鲜和俄罗斯
leader might at some point all sit down
领导人可能会在某个时候坐下​​来
together and have a bit of a meeting.
举行一次会谈。
Now whether they have a meeting or not,
现在不管他们有没有开会，
we'll definitely see them together
watching the parade tomorrow. There
明天我们肯定会看到他们一起观看游行。
they'll be up on the podium and that is
他们将站在领奖台上，与其他世界领导人一起观看这场盛大的游行，那
going to be a quite an amazing moment
将是一个非常令人惊叹的时刻
when they're there with those other
world leaders watching this vast uh
parade go by them. Uh but in the
。 呃，但
meantime, yes, you mentioned that
与此同时，是的，您提到
Xiinping had met Vladimir Putin. Lots of
习近平已经会见了弗拉基米尔·普京。 很多
friendly talk. Um essentially they're
友好的谈话。 嗯，本质上他们
both describing the relations between
都在描述两国关系
the two have reached this absolutely
已经达到了绝对
high level. I mean given how bad in the
高的水平。 我的意思是，考虑到
past China Russia relations have been
过去中俄关系一直很差，
some analysts would say it probably it
一些分析人士会说，可能
wouldn't take a lot to get to a higher
不需要花费太多精力就能达到更高的
level because you know remember in the
水平，因为你知道，在
cold war they are enemies and since then
冷战期间，他们是敌人，从那时起，
the trade hasn't been amazing between
them. I mean certainly China buys a lot
他们之间的贸易就一直不太顺利。 我的意思是，中国确实从俄罗斯购买了大量
of oil and gas from Russia but there
石油和天然气，但从
could be a lot more interaction between
the two in terms of the readout though
of what they've said to one another. Uh
他们彼此所说的话的解读来看，两国之间可能会有更多的互动。 呃，
I I'll just give you a few highlights.
我只会给你一些重点。
So for example, China is willing to
比如，中国愿意
strengthen high level exchanges between
加强两国高层交往
the two countries. We'd expect all that
。 我们都预料到会发生
sort of thing. But it was interesting
这样的事。 但有趣的是，
Xiinping spoke about the strong momentum
习近平谈到了
these countries have in terms of their
这些国家在
development and revitalization. Now,
发展和振兴方面所展现的强劲势头。 现在，
economists who are looking at Russia's
关注俄罗斯
economy would say it doesn't look too
经济的经济学家会说，
strong to them given that it's a war
由于俄罗斯是一个
ravaged country. Really, the economy's
饱受战争蹂躏的国家，所以俄罗斯的经济看起来并不太强劲。 确实，
in dire straits there. Could be much
那里的经济陷入困境。 如果
better without the war. This is
没有战争，情况可能会好得多。 这
interesting, too. Uh, in the official
也很有趣。 呃，在官方
readout, we're hearing that both Russia
声明中，我们听说俄罗斯
and China have a high degree or place a
和中国都高度重视
high degree of significance on the
international rule of law. Now, the
国际法治。 现在，
government in Ukraine would say that
乌克兰政府会说，
that sounds ridiculous to them given
that Russia invaded Ukraine, a sovereign
鉴于俄罗斯入侵了乌克兰这个主权
country, and how can you say it respects
国家，这听起来太荒谬了，你怎么能说它尊重
the international rule of law? But there
国际法治呢？ 但事实就是
you have it. These are the types of
这样。 这些都是
things that get said at these meetings.
在这些会议上讨论的事情。
And certainly Vladimir Putin is making
当然，弗拉基米尔·普京
the most of not only the Shanghai
不仅充分利用了上海
Cooperation Organization where he met a
合作组织的机会，在那里他会见了
whole lot of other leaders and according
许多其他领导人，而且根据
to reports in the Chinese press right
中国媒体的报道，他一直
late into the night and didn't get to
待到深夜，
Beijing until after midnight apparently
直到午夜后才抵达北京，显然，
then he can potentially meet Kim Jong-un
这样他就有可能会见到金正恩，
and of course he's been speaking to
当然，他今天已经与习近平进行了交谈，
Xiinping today and then the parade
tomorrow. So for him, for Vladimir
明天还将参加阅兵式。 因此，对于他，对于弗拉基米尔·
Putin, it's a great chance to be
普京来说，这是一个很好的机会，可以让他
appearing to be, you know, more of a
表现得更像一个
statesman when in much of the world he's
政治家，而在世界上的很多地方，他
seen actually as a bit of a pariah.
实际上被看作是一个贱民。
>> Yeah, thanks very much, Stephen, for
是的，非常感谢史蒂芬向
getting us across those details. Uh
我们介绍这些细节。
we're going to cross now to our South
我们现在请出访
Korea correspondent, Gene McKenzie, uh
韩国的记者吉恩·麦肯齐 (Gene McKenzie) 来
to get more about the significance of
进一步了解
Kim Jong-un's arrival in Beijing here.
金正恩抵达北京的意义。
And and Gene Steven was just telling us
吉恩·史蒂文刚刚告诉我们，
that his his train has been spotted in
他的火车已在北京被发现
Beijing. It seems like his arrival here
。 看来他来这里的日期
is now come to be.
已经到了。
>> Yes, Steve. That's also what we're
是的，史蒂夫。 这也是我们
seeing um South Korean media here
看到的韩国媒体的
reporting. They're reporting that his
报道。 他们报告说他的
train has now arrived. He has been
火车已经到达。 他已
traveling overnight from Pyongyang. The
连夜从平壤赶来。
total journey was I think expected to
我认为整个旅程预计
take him around 20 hours. So those
需要大约 20 个小时。 所以这些
timings would fit because this train
时间是合适的，因为这列火车
moves incredibly slowly because it's
是装甲火车，所以行驶速度非常慢
armored. It's very heavy. But this is
。 它很重。 但这正是
how Kim Jong-un likes to travel. It's
金正恩喜欢的出行方式。 这是
how he feels most secure. Um this is a
他感到最安全的方式。 嗯，这
major moment for him because he rarely
对他来说是一个重要的时刻，因为他很少
leaves North Korea. And when he does,
离开朝鲜。 当他这样做时，
it's very finely calibrated often in
this train. He he's very tightly
这列火车上的校准通常非常精细。 他受到非常严密的
protected and he usually just goes to
保护，通常只是
meet leaders one- on-one and very
单独会见领导人，而且很少
rarely. This is the first time that he
见面。 这是他第一次
has ever attended a major international
event like this with many world leaders.
与众多世界领导人共同出席如此重大的国际活动。
It's also the first time he's even um
这也是他
visited China in six years, which is
六年来第一次访问中国，这
significant in itself because China is
本身就具有重要意义，因为中国
actually North Korea's most important
实际上是朝鲜最重要的
ally. It is the country that has kept
盟友。 正是这个国家让
North Korea afloat all these years. And
朝鲜这些年来得以维持下去。
yet we've seen over the last couple of
然而，我们在过去几年里看到，
years Kim Jong-un really prioritize his
金正恩确实把他
relationship with Russia and Vladimir
与俄罗斯和
Putin over anything else because he has
普京的关系放在首位，因为他
been supporting Putin's war in Ukraine
一直支持普京在乌克兰的战争，
by supplying him with weapons and with
向他提供武器和
soldiers in return we think for vast
士兵，我们认为作为回报，他获得了
amounts of money. And in the process of
巨额金钱。 在此过程中，
this his relationship with China we
我们认为他与中国的关系
think has become a little strained.
变得有些紧张。
We've seen signs of this because China,
我们已经看到了这种迹象，因为
the reports say, is not best pleased at
报道称，中国对
the level of cooperation between Mr. Kim
金正恩和普京之间的合作水平并不满意
and Mr. Putin. So, him arriving here in
。 因此，他
Beijing today to attend this major
今天抵达北京参加这次盛大的
military parade suggests that he's ready
阅兵式表明他已准备好
to recalibrate his relationship with
重新调整与
Beijing. Perhaps he is conscious that
北京的关系。 也许他意识到
the war in Ukraine and his relationship
乌克兰战争以及他
with Vladimir Putin is not going to last
与弗拉基米尔·普京的关系不会
forever. But there is more to this
永远持续下去。 但事情远不止于此，
because it is this first international
因为这是
event that Kim has ever attended. We are
金正恩参加的第一次国际活动。 我们
going to get these remarkable pictures
将拍摄到这些前所未有的精彩照片，照片中
that we have never had before of him
他
standing shoulderto-shoulder with
multiple world leaders but at the front
多位世界领导人并肩站在一起，最前面是
him with Xi Jinping and with Vladimir
习近平和弗拉基米尔·
Putin. Um North Korea really showing the
普京。 嗯，朝鲜确实向
West and the United States that it has
西方和美国表明，它已
firmly aligned itself with China and
与中国和俄罗斯坚定结盟，
with Russia and also showing that Kim
同时也表明
Jong-un is just not as isolated as he
金正恩不再像以前那么孤立
used to be. He's in a much stronger
。 与
position than the last time he sat down
上次坐下来
to try to negotiate with the the United
与美国谈判
States about giving up his nuclear
放弃
weapons. That was during Trump's first
核武器相比，他现在的处境要有利得多。 那是在特朗普担任总统的第一个
term as president. Um the suggestion
任期内。 嗯，这种说法
being that perhaps North Korea is trying
是，如果朝鲜想再次与特朗普总统坐下来谈判，也许它想为
to buy itself some bargaining power if
自己赢得一些谈判筹码，
it's going to sit down with President
Trump again, something we know that
我们知道
President Trump wants because he said so
特朗普总统想要这样做，因为他
just a couple of weeks ago. But we are
几周前就这么说过。 但我们
still waiting to find out whether uh Kim
仍在等待了解金正恩是否
is going to meet individually with Mr.
会与
She and with Mr. Putin and whether the
佘先生和普京先生单独会晤，以及
three of them will all meet together.
他们三人是否会一起会晤。
Yeah, lots to look out for. Thanks very
是的，有很多事情要注意。 非常感谢
much, Gene, for giving us that context
吉恩向我们介绍
of the arrival of Kim Jong-un and North
金正恩和
Korea's leader Gene McKenzie there, our
朝鲜领导人吉恩麦肯齐（
so our sole correspondent.
我们唯一的记者）抵达朝鲜的情况。
Now we can pick up the conversation with
现在我们可以继续与
Charles Parton. and he's former British
查尔斯·帕顿的对话。 他是前英国驻华
diplomat in China and associate fellow
外交官和
at Council on Geo Strategy and get his
地缘战略委员会副研究员，并发表了自己的
thoughts. Charles, what do you make of
看法。 查尔斯，您如何看待
the arrival of the We've just seen
pictures of the train uh that Kim
Jong-un is arriving on in coming into
金正恩抵达北京？我们刚刚看到了金正恩乘坐的火车抵达
Beijing. What do you make of his
北京的照片。 您如何看待他
presence here amongst so many other
与众多领导人一起出席此次活动
leaders?
？
>> Well, clearly clearly it's important
嗯，显然这很重要，
because as your correspondent said, they
因为正如你的记者所说，他们
haven't um met very much. There was a
见面并不多。
flurry of meetings in 2018 and 19 when
2018 年和 2019 年，
President Trump was going to meet Kim
特朗普总统即将与金正恩会面，双方举行了一系列会晤，
Jong-un and I think that moved Sigin
我认为这促使 Sigin
Ping to to um try head him off at the
Ping 试图在山口阻止他
pass. But I'm not sure that it's going
。 但我不确定这是否会对
to make a real difference to the nature
of of the relationship. I mean clearly
两国关系的性质产生真正的影响。 我的意思是，显然，
um because Siginping is really very
嗯，因为 Siginping 的立场确实非常
anti-American in his stance and North
反美，
Korea is too they have that in common.
朝鲜也是如此，他们有共同之处。
But North Korea is very unpredictable.
但朝鲜的行为非常难以预测。
It's a nuclear worry for China. I mean,
这对中国来说是一个核担忧。 我的意思是，
what happens if um Kim the Maverick did
如果金正恩真的
did launch an attack on South Korea,
对韩国发动了攻击，无论是
nuclear or otherwise, or even on Japan
核攻击还是其他攻击，甚至对日本
or even on America? Uh that would pull
或美国，会发生什么？ 呃，那会让
China in into an appalling mess. And I
中国陷入可怕的混乱之中。 我
think at the back of the Chinese mind is
认为，中国人内心深处
always the worry that North Korea could
始终担心朝鲜
be an unstable regime. There's a lot of
政权可能不稳定。 这里充满了
poverty, starvation, unhappiness. And if
贫穷、饥饿和不幸。 如果
it the regime really hit hit trouble,
该政权真的陷入困境，
instability could flood over the Chinese
不稳定因素可能会以
border in the form of refugees and other
难民和其他
things into provinces in northern China
形式涌入中国边境，涌入中国北方省份，
which are also um suffering economically
这些省份的经济状况也同样糟糕
and and probably not as uh as stable as
，而且可能不像
she would wish. So it's those problems
她希望的那样稳定。 所以
are not going to go away, I think.
我认为这些问题不会消失。
>> Yeah. But it does present uh Kim Jong-un
是的。 但它确实为金正恩提供了
a stage to be seen with other leaders
一个与其他领导人见面的舞台，
and which could in turn lead to more
这反过来又可以促进
development in his country, could it
他的国家进一步发展，
not?
不是吗？
>> Uh c certainly it it could uh if if Kim
呃，当然可以，如果
uh so so wishes and Xiinping wishes, but
金正恩和习近平希望的话，但是
uh Korea and Chinese relations have
韩国和中国的关系
always been pretty tense. Uh they may
一直非常紧张。 呃，他们可能会
describe be I mean Korea North Korea's
描述韩国是
Beijing's only real ally. I mean they
北京唯一真正的盟友。 我的意思是他们
have an alliance treaty. China tries to
有联盟条约。 中国试图
stay stay clear of alliances. Um but
远离联盟。 嗯，但
nevertheless it's been a pretty rocky
尽管如此，多年来我们的关系一直不太稳定
relationship over over the years. Uh
。 呃，
will it get vastly better? Uh I I'm not
情况会变得更好吗？ 呃，我
sure that actually underneath uh it will
不确定实际上在下面呃它是否会有所
improve as much as as as as the optics
改善，就像
will seem from when he's standing there
当他站在那里
on on in looking over Tan then.
看着谭时光学效果看起来的那样。
>> Well, Charles, I have to leave it there,
好吧，查尔斯，我必须就此打住，
but thanks very much for sharing your
但还是非常感谢您
thoughts with us. Do appreciate your
与我们分享您的想法。 非常感谢您的
time. and Charles Parton, former British
时间。 以及前英国驻华
diplomat in China, an associate fellow
外交官、
at Council on Geo Strategy. So, Regina,
地缘战略委员会副研究员查尔斯·帕顿 (Charles Parton)。 所以，雷吉娜，
you can see there's a lot of moving
你可以看到有很多活动的
parts, a lot of world leaders descending
部分，很多世界领导人
here on Beijing, uh with a lot of
来到北京，
different talking points with their
谈论很多不同的话题，涉及
relationships with each other and also
彼此之间的关系，以及
what that means for their relationships
这对他们
with the United States and President
与美国和
Trump as well, where all these things
特朗普总统的关系意味着什么，所有这些事情
tend to intersect on many of our news
往往在我们的许多新闻报道中交织在一起
stories. I'll be here throughout today
。 我今天会一直在这里，
and again tomorrow when the the Marine
the parade gets underway at 9:00 a.m.
tomorrow morning. We'll have all that
明天早上 9 点海军陆战队阅兵式开始时我还会在这里。 我们将
coverage for you live here on BBC News.
在 BBC 新闻上为您现场报道这一切。